Anyone who reads many of my blogs will find fairly quickly that I am not a Calvinist (no hard feelings, John Knox). But how does that work? Is generally the next query: ‘If you believe in God’s plan, how can you NOT be a Calvinist?’ (Actually was asked that recently.)
The issue, for me, on this matter comes down to the will of God… and understanding it, or more specifically, how to go about understanding it. The outworkings of our perception of the universe and God’s work in it have to start with understanding God’s will. That is to say: We have to understand what God’s will is in order to see God’s hand at work in the world around us; we cannot look at the state, or condition of the world, and assume that by seeing it we know the will of God.
The main issue that I have with Calvinist thought is that it resigns us to our life’s situations and circumstances as God’s will. No matter what happens, God is sovereign, and He is working out all things in accordance to His will, therefore whatever happens… it must be God’s will. I know of ordained minksters who will outright say that. Confronted with the question: “What about that girl in the news who was raped, was that God’s will?” He (that is the subject of this particular example) answered in the affirmative.
“I don’t understand it, but, it happened so it must be God’s will.” Yeah… surely He’s working out the grsater good and all that, but clearly this is wrong thinking. Rape is not God’s will. Violence and trauma are not God’s will.
As repulsive as that hyperbole (which unfortunately is not really an hyperbole – real people actually think that way) is, the problem with this extreme view of sovereignty is more fundamentally problematic than that to Christianity at large.
Believe it or not, that philosophy (that God is in absolute control of all things, and predestined EVERYTHING) equates our experience with scipture. I.e. it means that our experience is just as good as God’s Word in determining God’s will. If God’s will is what is automatically happening in my life, then I should surely resign myself entirely to it, and be assured that in doing so, I am submitting to God’s will for me regardless of scripture, for my experiences are perfectly wrought of God’s will. My actions are His own edicts; your behavior, His commands. It is therefore the world and our circumstance rather than the Word of God which teaches us His will. Some will surely argue that this is not the case of the outworkings of Calvinist philosophy, but I am frequently in contact with people who quickly resign themselves to adverse circumstances because upon their initial prayer for relief in those circumstances, there is no immediate change; they therefore assume that God has decreed their circumstance and they must humbly resign to it as His will.
This is a prevalent fruit which is rampant in the church (a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump) which effectively murders faith because we assume our circumstance to be God’s will. Truth be told, faith is negated before you start if you are resigned to circumstance as God’s will. What are you going to pray? That God will change His mind?
God’s Word reveals His will – if His Word promises healing, then that is His will. Forgive me for believing the bible more than I believe your circumstance (or mine) to be the will of God.
Okay, so I’ve made a case against Calvinism, what’s the alternative? Well, as I mentioned, our chief aim should be to find the will of God, rather than to determine His will by our circumstance. What does God’s Word say that His will is? It is declared quite plainly:
1 Thess 4:3 ‘For this is the will of God, even your sanctification…’
Wow… that’s rather plainly stated, isn’t it? The heart of God’s will is YOUR SANCTIFICATION.
Not to predestinate what color socks I wear tomorrow (really my limited sock drawer only has two options – hope I’m not missing the will of God…)? Forgive my jesting, but consider this for a second:
God’s will is our sanctification… that’s not an event, its a process. In our concept of God’s sovereignty, we hyper-emphasize events… circumstances. As if God was invested in orchestrating EVENTS. Does He orchestrate events? I’m sure He does, but that’s not the center of His will – that’s a redemptive process which He can use to sanctify us. I fact, if God’s will is our sanctification, then God can be at work on that process regardless of events, and regardless of our circumstances.
Does God sovereignly control every event and circumstance we face? No! But He CAN use every event and circumstance to orchestrate His will! Everything you face can draw you closer to God.
Was God happy about the wickedness of Nebechadnezzer? No, surely God’s will included even his sanctification, but God knew the man was a wicked sinner who would conquer and destroy – surely He could use even that circumstance to sanctify His people! God will work out His will with the elect – but His will is not circumstances, or events (save such events as salvation, redemption, healing – everything God does is good), His will is our sanctification.
When we realize that God is not invested in putting us through horrendous, tragic or traumatic circumstances – but is rather invested in making us more like Jesus, then we can also see how God can use even those negative or adverse circumstances to accomllish His will without them actually being His will. Further, we can see that we are not called to be victims of circumstance, but can rise above adverse situations; we can overcome – and that, too, ks the will of God (Rom 12:21; 1 John 5:4, etc.).
Pnuematic Rain 
Actually, I think you misunderstand what is meant by “God’s Will.”
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God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
God’s will is opposite of what is happening in the world; only that which He redeems comes into alignment with His will. The concept of God’s perfect sovereignty is what I am speaking to here; if the Calvinist line of extreme sovereignty is true, and all things are predestinated then God is working wickedness in the world. Yet scripture clearly paints wickedness as contrary to God’s will. The standard justification for that, however, is that God is somehow willing temporal evils for some greater cosmic good that is above us and non-understandable. But that is also contrary to biblical principle as Paul said: ‘Shall we do evil that good may result?’ So should God do/allow wickedness so that He can work it to good? No, and He doesn’t its an entirely mistaken line of thought. God did not predestine sin, what He predestines is conformity to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29) or in a single word: ‘sanctification.’
God’s will is, indeed, for all men to be saved, and for YOU to be sanctified.
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Again, I think you misunderstand God’s will. First, your 2 Peter passage interpretation is not correct. It is not saying that it is God’s will that every person be saved, it clearly is not or every person would be saved. It is his will the every elect person is saved. That being said, allowing wickedness for his greater glory is not the same as working wickedness. Do you think it was God’s will for bad things to happen to Job? You have to say yes because God clearly permitted it to happen and it could not have happened without his permission.
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I wrote a post on the book of Job, feel free to check it out.
The extreme sovereignty perspective – as I mentioned – assumes that God controls everything, you are starting with that assumption, as though God needs to micromanage everything (I personally think that to a large degree it is human carnality – our own need to feel in control – that causes us to assume this of God). God’s will is not happening in the world; just because something is God’s will does not mean that He forces it to happen, so no salvation for all people doesn’t happen even though surely it is God’s will. If it is not God’s will, then God (or at the very least, Peter) is a liar. God’s Word is True, and the Lord is not so carnal that He must force His way on creation – at least, not with subtelty; He once forced His way on a man named Jonah and in that case His will was fully revealed and it was to the same end that I have described: that the Ninevites repent. Yet if God had predestined them to salvation sovereignly, He had no need for Jonah – surely His will would be accomplished sovereignly as He cause Jonah to ‘will and to do according to his purpose.’ Rather God was relying on Jonah to do His will in the earth, but Jonah was uncooperative. God’s will was not being accomplished in Ninevah without His intervention (which intervention was to co-labor with a minister – just as it is today; you and I must minister if we are to accomplish His will in Niniveh). God’s will is not happening in the earth, rather the whole world lieth in wickedness (1 John 5:19) only that which is redeemed comes into the will of God.
You can take my post to mean, I am not sophisticated for the theological gymnastics of Calvinism at my level of intellect, I have to just accept the plain statements of scripture understand the will of God.
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You clearly ignored most of my response to you. You aren’t objective and that is obvious. That doesn’t make you right though.
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Odd, I thought I addressed everythiing you said:
1) My interpretation of 2 peter 3:9 is wrong because if God wanted everyone saved they would be.
The plain statement of scripture clearly says in that passage that it is God’s will for all to be saved, I’ll quote the whole thing so we can be on the same page:
‘The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH but that ALL should come to repentance’
That is a plain and unambiguous statement. To interpret it differently than what it says is not exegesis, but isogesis. In order to interpret it differently one has to have a pre-supposition regarding an alternate meaning. You already stated your pre-supposition: that if it was God’s will it would happen.
On the other hand, I look at the statement that says its God’s will that none should perish (for I knkw no other way to interpret it except I assume its not true because of an isogetical bias), and see also plain statement that many will be damned, and I must conclude that God has indeed revealed His will, but that His will is not happening. And I appologize if I answered to ambiguously the first time.
As to your concern about the book of Job, I again commend you to the post I wrote on it, as I address your sttatement about it there. At any rate, thanks for dropping by, God bless!
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That verse is taken out of context. He is talking about the elect, not all of humanity. If it is God’s will and it does not happen, you have a sovereignty problem.
What is the link to your job post?
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If 2 Peter 3:9 can’t be taken by its plain statement, then I’ll refer you to 1 Timonthy 2:3 & 4
‘For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 Who will have ALL MEN to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth.’
I’m not sure if there is a way to deny in this verse he is speaking of ALL MEN, rather than just the elect, but let me know if you can think of it. But if God’s will is happening in the earth already, then why does Christ tell us in the Lord’s prayer to pray that His will be done in earth as in heaven? If His will is already being done, is He not then exhorting us to pray a frivolous prayer that would equate to vain repetitions?
The Job post is tagged on my main page but here’s the link: https://pnuematicrain.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/elihu-job-and-the-mystery-of-suffering/
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Let’s take the plain statement of 2 Peter 3. What is the full context? He is talking to the beloved, to the elect. Not the entire world. The direct statement is that God is patient toward you, the elect, not willing that any should perish. Any directly refers to the you that was just given. It is not saying by any stretch that his will is to save everyone. His will is that none of the elect perish. That is the plain reading with plain grammatical rules applied.
Your 1 Timothy passage is again saying the elect. It is not saying every person should be saved. Not at all. All people. If you look at the context you see he is referring to the fact that Gentiles are to be saved as well. All people groups, not every person. You have to look at the entire context of the passage and not just cherry pick a verse.
We know that his will is not that every person be saved. Romans 9 makes this abundantly clear.
I’ll look at your Job post later.
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I can cerainly grant that Peter is speaking to the elect in 1 Peter is written to the elect, and that you coukd, therefore, argue that the universal statement may only be applied to such; yet as I pointed out, it would still require a pre-supposition to do so (thus Romans 9, the lynchpin of the perspective – which we can discuss more shortly).
1 Timothy 2:4, however is NOT speaking of the elect (of course, every epistle is written TO the elect), contextually, Paul is speaking of praying for ALL MEN and expressly speaks of kings and government authorities (secular), and uses the same terminology ALL MEN to express whom it is God’s will to save. He further goes on in the context to declare that Christ died for ALL without distinction. For this passage you not only pre-suppose, but also deny the context to say that it applies only to the elect.
Romans 9: The passage that is used to speak of the elect, here, is a calling out of certain people to a special appointment of service to God, NOT an election of damnation. Speaking of context, the context of Romans 9 is Romans 8. Romans 8 sets the context for this concept of predestination; verse 29 gives the definitikn of the concept:
‘Whom [God] did foreknow, he did ALSO predestinate…’ 1st came foreknowledge, then came predestination; FIRST He foreknew, THEN He predestinated. Let’s not stop there; the rest of the verse furher defines biblical predestination: ‘…TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.’
What is the purpose, or end of predestination? Conformity to the image of the Son of God. Damnation? No, that isn’t mentioned. God does not predestine people to damnatjon, He predestined people to be conformed to the image of His Son.
Now that we have some context let’s loom at an examlpe in Romans 9: God declared to Rebecca that the elder child would serve the younger (v. 11 & 12) this was a special appointment of Jacob to be a vessel through whom Messiah would come. This was on the basis of God’s foreknowledge for according to the context of that teaching: ‘Whom God foreknew he did ALSO predestinate..’ (Rom 8:29) He did foreknow which of Rebecca’s sons would serve Him, and which would sell his birthright for soup, and accordingly predestined Jacob to a special calling (not according to works but who would pursue God given the opportunity (that extended opportunity represents the predestination)).
Neither was Esau left unsaved (elected for damnation) for in the end he (personally) blessed Jacob; God also prefering his posterity enough to not allow Israel to take their land. So the statement: Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated is by degrees just as Jesus declared anyone who comes after Him must hate [his family] (Luke 14:26). Does He want you to hate your family? No, He used the word ‘hate’ as hyperbole; you should love God so much that you are willing to forsake hour family if need be. God loved Jaccob so much He was willing to forsake Esau if need be. So by example these – some get special grace because God foreknew their heart, and some get special hardening because God foreknew their heart.
And in fact, it is an error not to acknowledge that just as Romans 8 provides context for Romans 9, neither is Romans 9 the completion of the thought, but context for God’s plan of reprobation and salvation to the Jews and gentiles (Romans 10 & 11), in which God in these days has opened the gift of salvation to everyone who believes, allowing hardening of them to whom Messiah came so that all the world could be saved. Even in that, Paul declares that God did not cast away His people whom He FOREKNEW (Rom 11:2) i.e. as many of the Jews as He knew would recieve Him given the opportunity (foreknew) He also still predestinates.
But now I’m doing all the talking, and I still wonder why Christ told us to pray ‘Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven’ if His will is already being done?
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